Question Details

No question body available.

Tags

human-resources recommendation-letter zeugnis

Answers (7)

Accepted Answer Available
Accepted Answer
May 5, 2025 Score: 34 Rep: 152,049 Quality: Expert Completeness: 30%

The Arbeitszeugnis has to be truthful. The employer should not lie and while almost all court cases are about employees arguing their ex-employer lied to their disadvantage, there are rare cases where the next employer sues on the grounds that the ex-employer lied (or omitted things that should have been mentioned) to the employees advantage.

From a practical perspective, an Arbeitszeugnis is kind of a deterrent against bad behaviour. If you give everyone the best possible regardless of their behaviour, the deterrent just shrank to zero. Just imagine a school where all kids get an A+ automatically. Who would do the homework? And who would give anything about a school that did that? Who would trust their grades? Who would accept a reference from such a school? Who would send their kid there?

Sure, employment and the adult work works differently... but not that differently. The basics stay the same.

But most people don't think about it that way. It is your job to be truthful. Why go through all the trouble and lie? Especially since it might go to court if you do?

I have had mulitple instances of my supervisors telling me "listen, you are great, but I cannot give you all straight 'A's, nobody would believe such an Arbeitszeugnis. You pick the one exception based on your future priorities where you are good with a 'B' and we will make that one a 'B'". And I agree because it would look totally fake otherwise. [1]


[1] This is not a story about me being amazing in all things. I just had enough time, feedback and Arbeitszeugnisse that weren't all 'A's to know what I am good at and what I should leave to others. And I pick jobs accordingly.

May 5, 2025 Score: 11 Rep: 50,237 Quality: Expert Completeness: 30%

I want to give a bit of a tangential answer as to why a company would give a bad reference.

It comes back to the notion of Good Faith.

Assume for the moment I am a business owner. For my Business, unless I am a revolutionary startup - the chances are I am going to be in a market with other competitors. Furthermore, the likelihood that I will deal with those competitors, both collaboratively and competitively is very high.

In NZ, in IT - we have a bit of a phrase: Kiwi IT is Incestuous. Meaning that the pool of workers is so small that you will end-up working with someone you have worked with before.

This means if I have an objectively bad employee and I palm them off to a company that is either a competitor or within the industry I work in, with a glowing review - word will get around, people will question my judgement and my capability. People will start not wanting to deal with me fairly.

Therefore, whilst it may be advantageous in the short term to get rid of a bad employee, in the long term it can be very harmful.

Honesty and integrity form key aspects of a High-trust society, which we operate in. I want to be dealt with fairly in my future dealings - doesn't mean I will always get what I want - but so long as it is fair - I can live with that. If I start lying and cheating - people will very quickly catch on and I will face the repurcussions.

But we have to be clear here - to get a bad review is very difficult. It generally means Instant dismissal for Gross Misconduct. I have worked with some people that if I had the means - I would never hire again.

I am not going to put in the referall that they were useless. I would put that our office culture was not the right fit for them or similar.

Because this is another thing to consider - Person A at Employer A might be useless, Person A at Employer B might be great.

May 5, 2025 Score: 10 Rep: 140,094 Quality: Medium Completeness: 20%

what is the benefit for a company to give a reference letter that does not describe the person as a model employee?

Professional courtesy and reciprocity.

Most managers read more references than they write. References are an important part of the hiring process and if you want to read honest ones and actually get some useful information, you should be willing to write honest ones and provide useful information as well. Otherwise the whole system becomes useless.

May 5, 2025 Score: 8 Rep: 5,101 Quality: Medium Completeness: 50%

In any country, an employer should be truthful about the employee's stint with them. They could be called by a prospective employer and they need to justify their reference. In some countries they could also be sued for for providing incorrect information.

In New Zealand, the laws are stupid, where the employer is not allowed to say anything bad in a reference. So -

  • The honest employers word it carefully with fluff. That is, what is important is left out.
  • The dishonest ones lie. An example is the medical profession. The hospitals lie to get rid of the bad doctors. There have been cases of these doctors being so bad as to have allegedly caused death.

I am in the honest camp. But for bad employees, I praise everything except their work. I have had a case where the new employer rang up and quizzed me about it. I fielded that. Then he was persistent about "if I would employ him again" and "why did I let him go". At that point I could not avoid the truth.

May 7, 2025 Score: 3 Rep: 1,209 Quality: Low Completeness: 10%

The employee has already quit; so why would the company want to make life hard for them?

And why would they go out of their way to help them?

If they were a sub-par employee, it's easiest - and honest - to just state they were a sub-par employee without inventing qualities for the sake of helping someone who wasn't as helpful as they should have been and has already left.

May 5, 2025 Score: 2 Rep: 11,729 Quality: Medium Completeness: 30%

In an ideal world, your employer would wish you well on your further career path and let you go. In a not-so-ideal real world, they may have hard feelings toward you.

Giving out bad references could be done out of spite, or because they feel obligated to "warn" next employers about a "bad" candidate. Especially in small companies, there may be personal feelings involved.

Or they hope that you'll come back, if your next gig doesn't work out. But all that is just speculation. Companies are run by people, and people tend to react irrational all the time.

In germany, there are laws that prohibit companies to give out bad reviews. Because of that german HR departements have developed a whole art form of giving out reviews who sound nice, but are anything but.

If you ask me, why bother with references at all, if they won't be honest, or just contain secret HR talk no one understands? Until now I have never requested them from past employers. If some agency or a future employer needs something to verify that I worked at company XY, I always just asked for a confirmation of employment, not a written reference.

May 8, 2025 Score: 0 Rep: 783 Quality: Low Completeness: 30%

In the United Kingdom, references are normally personal, from an individual. I've never encountered an official reference from a company, although that doesn't prove they never happen.

Last year, I got an unexpected LinkedIn message from an ex-colleague who left some years ago for health reasons. So did his former supervisor; it seemed likely to both of us that the ex-colleague was now job-hunting and would ask for references. He's quite capable at some things and exceptionally bad at others, though he didn't understand this while working for us. I have a pre-written reference for him explaining this, and how to manage him.

If I'm asked for it, it may prevent him from getting the kind of job where he'd cause a disaster, and will hopefully help him get the kind of job he can succeed in. I wrote it to clarify my own reasoning, and in the hope of helping him, even it if doesn't match what he wants. Enabling him to cause havoc at another company would not help him at all.